My Photo

Who Am I?

  • My life as a wife, mother, and child of God. I can tell a good joke, but only at my own expense. I can tell ya how to parent, but only by first failing. And I can tell you how to get to Heaven, but you gotta get there on your own.

« Perspective | Main | The Best Mistake Ever »

September 30, 2010

Comments

Sarah Robbins

I agree with you. I love rainbows and it makes me sad that they mean something different than was originally intended. It is just a reminder that there are other forces at work in this world.

I am proud of that company for standing up for their beliefs. Christ promised that we would face hardship as we followed him. . . I am so thankful for the encouragement that this world is temporary and we can continue to hope in Christ and in a time when the truth will be made known to everyone. I hope that bakery stands firm. God will bless them for the steadfastness in the face of persecution. . .

marybeth

Oh goodness you don't want my opinion hun. But I stand with you and the bakery all the way. If I started talking about this and giving my opinion, there would be no end. I'm a Christian wife and mother of 3 and rainbows mean the same thing to me. I don't care what anyone uses it for nowadays .I know what God used it for. Big hugs

Jenny

To me, it should have ended with "we don't make cupcakes". As Americans, we have every right to have our beliefs but why stoke the fire with any added commentary. Just my humble opinion.

melissa

If you own a private business you should have the right to do business with or not do business with anyone you want. They didn't put up a sign saying something negative or positive about the event, they just declined an order. If they have enough business that they can afford to turn down the order fine, even if they are on the verge of closing their doors they should have the right to refuse the order.

If they were refusing to make cupcakes for the KKK or for a Mosque I'm guessing people would be lining up to order from them to show their support.

It's a sad time when it's only acceptable to express your opinions when everyone else agrees that you are being politically correct.

Personally, I think it's ashame we can't accept people for who they are regardless of their color, race, religion or sexual preference, but no one should be told what to believe. Saying the people who own this bakery HAVE to make the cupcakes for this group would be like telling the group it's wrong to be gay.

Barista

If you are a business owner and you make a political statement of any kind the people who disagree with that statement will likely attack you in some way and it will affect your business. If they’d stuck with “We don’t make cupcakes” this wouldn’t be a big deal. Sure, they have the freedom to express their values, but to think it won’t have an effect on your business in 2010 when you make such a political statement to a camera crew? Really?

If I, as the owner of a cupcake business, speak out against – let’s just say Christianity for the purpose of this discussion – do you really believe that anyone who considers him/herself to be a Christian would patronize my bakery? Doubtful. In fact, I’d bet that someone would make just as big of a deal about it as this is being made out to be.

Joy Ellis

I am in agreement with you! City needs to stay out of it!

darcie

::sigh::
Of course they shouldn't be forced to make the cupcakes. They should have been able to simply refuse the business and go about their lives.
You are right - Rainbows mean different things to different people. To me, they mean happiness. I don't tie them to gays or christians or what have you.
Just simply something that makes me smile.
Bright colors...or colors appearing in the sky...whatever.
People make mountains out of mole hills all.the.time.
When does it stop? As you can probably guess - I am not against a gay lifestyle - to each their own I say. If you are doing something that doesn't hurt me or my family - why should I be bothered by it?
I'm much more concerned with crimes that take place all around us, every single day...I worry about that...not about who someone chooses to love...
oh I could go on and on - but I won't...
xoxo

LJS

As a small business owner, I would have to completely agree with Just Cookies decision. I would have done the exact same thing. Regardless if I made cupcakes or not! As a photographer I wouldn't photograph a same-sex wedding, and I wouldn't photograph a vampire wedding! I wouldn't photograph a lot of things. I am not a bigot, just a business woman with discernment. If the client's lifestyle/requests don't sit right with my convictions then they can look for a photographer elsewhere.

Amanda

"The very people who say they are striving for peace and tolerance are now making it their mission to destroy people who have a different view."

Couldn't have said it better myself!

: )

Stephanie

If you're going to make a business choice based on a political or religious issue and then make it known to the public that your actions were based on your beliefs you should expect that people with the opposite beliefs aren't going to support you.

You don't support them.. why should they come to you and spend their money or recommend you to their friends?

I think that business practices should be kept separate from beliefs and that people should not be denied services based on their lifestyles. If a business owner wants to do this, then they should be prepared to lose any customers with different beliefs.

mindy

The rainbow means the same thing for me as it does for you. I wouldn't boycott them. And you are absolutely right, it isn't right that they stir up contention and trouble for others when they say they want all to be accepted. We all have a choice. I applaud them for standing up for their beliefs, for not making-up another reason to give as to why they wouldn't take the job, instead of copping out and giving one that is more socially acceptable in today's climate.
It is hard knowing that a symbol of love and peace means something different, contrasting to the beliefs of so many others.
We currently use the rainbow in our logo (family business) but have been trying to convince my father-in-law that it's time to dump it, it means something so much different, and we don't want to pass on the wrong idea. We don't want to imitate that which doesn't fit into what we believe.
I pray that these people are blessed for doing what they believe to be right, not bending with the winds of opposition that are blowing at them and giving in.

Bethany

You're in my backyard now! :) I was cracked up watching the 11 o'clock news last night when people were harrassing them for rainbow sprinkles on cookies.
The funny thing is that they just don't do special orders either.
I think they should have just declined to make them, but I also think they shouldn't be vilified for refusing. It's a sad time when this makes national news.

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1383896427

Wow...what a sticky topic.

Ok...so part of me feels like they should have stopped with the whole, "We don't do cupcakes or private orders."

But then...it sounds like they are Christians that believe the entire Bible to be the Word of God...and if so, and this is what they believe...than they also believe homosexuality is sin. Period. The Bible is very clear on this...it's not even a gray area. Man shall not lie with man as with woman...it is an abomination.

We are not to be ashamed of the Gospel. We didn't get to decide what it contains...God did. As such, God decided homosexuality is a sin. And I'm not ashamed to proclaim the truth about what is and what isn't sin. So why should they?

What if they DID make cupcakes? Should they have the right to decline on the basis they have a moral objection to the event? Of course.

But more and more today, our society is taking away an individual's right to have an opinion. If you disagree with homosexuality, you are deemed a homophobe, intolerant, etc. More and more, our society looks upon those that disagree with homosexuality in the same way as they look upon those that are blatantly racist. And it's only going to get worse as the next generation starts moving through their 20's and into their 30's. This upcoming generation embraces homosexuality with wide open arms.

But what about those of us that share a different opinion? I own a rental property...happen to live here with my four children. I disagree with homosexuality. Should I be forced to rent to a homosexual couple?

I ran a home daycare. Should I be forced to take in a student that has same-sex parents?

As gay marriage becomes legal in more and more states, are churches going to be open to lawsuits if they refuse to marry a same-sex couple?

Perhaps many on here that embrace homosexuality, view those of us that don't as ignorant, bigot, etc. But isn't it my right to not accept a lifestyle?

I'm not acting hateful. I don't hate persons that are gay. My hairstylist is gay...I've gone to him for almost 15 years. My sister and brother both went through a period where they thought they were gay...still loved them and treated them with respect.

But I don't agree with the lifestyle. I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. I didn't get to decide that homosexuality was a sin...but it is...because He said it was. Hey, guess what...so is divorce and shacking up. I wouldn't support those lifestyles either.

Do I still have the right to feel that way?

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1383896427

Oh...one more thing...I wanted to speak to the idea that their business should be boycotted by those that disagree with their conservative views...

Ok...fine. But those that disagree ought not to be attacking the business...and spreading slander and lies. There's a reason they went to that bakery...because they have good food (I'm assuming). Now, because you don't like the answer they gave, now suddenly their food is bad?

That's wrong...plain and simple.

TEN

As others have said, they should have ended with "we don't make cupcakes." End of conversation. The owner's statements after that statement opened him up to the boycott.

The boycott is acceptable. Just as it was (is?) acceptable for other groups boycott Disney for their pro-views. The lies and other unacceptable language is not acceptable in any situation. It only serves to detract from the boycott message.

I would participate in a boycott. If the owners are willing to take a stand as part of their business plan, then I am willing to take a stand with my money. Of course, in full disclosure, this would be an easy thing to boycott as there are many family-owned bakeries in my area.

Can you explain how the city is even involved with this incident? I can't think of why they would be; so I must be missing something.

Renee

Ok, if it were me, I'd not do business with them any longer. I am the mom of a gay son, and well, why it may not be my choice for him, it is HIS choice. I support him no matter what. So if a business was not 'gay friendly' for whatever reason, I'd no longer go there. I would NOT do mean things, I would just no longer give them my business.

BC

as a busniess owner, you don't get to make business decisions based on beliefs. When someone walks into my shop, i don't get to go "I don't like you for whatever reason, so I won't do business with you." Personal beliefs are great, but they should have just said they don't do cupcakes, end of conversation. and if they did make cupcakes, they should have done the business and either A) asked that they business name not be promoted at the event, or B) let their name be promoted and reap the benefits of the business they could get from serving great tasting cupcakes! Refusing someone service based on previous business is one thing, and I can also understand not wanting to put any explicit wording or designs on something due to beliefs. How many gay customers could this business have already had and not even known they were gay!

Anna

I just love how we judge people like we have a right now. How so many people believe that being gay is a choice. Sad. Let's all speak through love, each person on this earth is your fellow man and who are you to decide how they live is wrong? Look at your spouse, what if an enormous group of people told you that loving them was a sin, wrong, a choice, how would you feel? I agree that attacking the shop is wrong. The greatest thing you can do when you are not being treated fairly is to walk away with your head held high. Say thank you and I'm sorry that you feel that way. This should have never gotten further than, we don't do special orders. Come on everyone, it's not about being liberal or conservative, our political leaders want it to be so you will take sides but it truly is about love. Isn't everything that God is about really love?? It always has been for me and I will do my best to show that it is to my children. My husband and I believe we are here to love and serve our fellow man, all of our fellow man, not just those like us. Let's make the choice to LOVE.

Mary

This is something that really gets to me! People start their own business so that they can make their own decisions, hours, schedules, products etc...Why do other people feel they have any right to interfere with that?! My husband is self-employed so he can work when he wants and for whom he wants. I also really dislike (trying not to say something harsher!) how some people try and hurt others b/c someone doesn't agree with them :( It is sad, really sad. Hopefully, the attention given to this will show that part of the story!!

Tracy P.

Wow, Amanda, great thread here. Love the variety of perspectives and the abundance of respect and grace. Our Sunday school class is soon to discuss homosexuality, and I may have to use this as a reference. Christians need to be serious about examining our talk and our practices and our scriptures in a culture that embraces homosexuality. I do not find that the answers come quickly. Kudos to you for opening up honest dialogue.

Amanda Rettke

Great question!  The bakery leases their space from the city, in a city square I believe, so folks are asking the city to take a stand on the issue.

Amanda Rettke

Just wondering BC, if you are an athesist business owner, say, a cake maker... do you have the right to not make christening or baptism or confirmation or dedication or bah mitzvah cakes?  Isnt that a right of the business owner?

Natali

People have the RIGHT to stand up for their beliefs. That is what America is (used to) all about. It screams HYPOCRITE to me to be treated that way for having beliefs different than their own.

Jan Shevik

Don't you have you the right to refuse service at your personal business? I mean it's not a chain or franchise that has corporate expectations and regulations.
I really don't care if they made the order or not. They are allowed their beliefs as much as the folks who wanted to order have their beliefs. And unless you are in my bed I really don't care what you do in yours. God made us all for a reason. And provided us a rainbow to see all the promises and possibilities of life with God.
It's not like they refused completely, the folks wanted something they don't provide.
As far as continuing to patronize the bakery, I would have to see if the product was yummy and delicious and the people provided a fair price and good servie then yes I would continue to patronize the store.
Amanda, I love all your rainbow themed foods! I'll take a cake and two dozen cookies because I'd like to celebrate life!

bp

Well I had not heard of this until reading your post, then later got an email about the situation.

This is just ridiculuous. Good for the shop owner for saying no.

To me there is a difference in someone coming into your shop to buy your product and someone coming in with a special order that will be used at a homosexual event.

I'm tired of our society becoming so enraged when someone takes a stand against homosexuality. Christians have been quiet for far too long. Why? Are we afraid we are going to step on someone's toes? What God says is sin is sin and we shouldn't knowingly support it with our dollars. (That's why we've banned Home Depot.)

Reading this also made me wonder what God things of His rainbow--His symbol for a promise as you said-- turned into a symbol for homosexuality, something that He says is an abomination...

Shara

Thanks for the post Amanda! It's topics like these that bring people out of the wood work. I appreciate that you take a stance!

1 Question to other Christian commenters: Why do we expect those who do not have the Holy Spirit to live or behave as if they do? Why are we shocked and surprised by sinful behavior in those who have no choice? Why do we think we can argue them into Biblical truth that makes no sense to their dead soul?

BTW, I think that the business had a choice to refuse the business. They didn't provide the service, and they didn't get paid. My husband has a choice not to do a website for things that he doesn't align with. It's the nature of owning your own business.

Amy Roper

OK fine. They don't serve cupcakes. The issue isn't cupcakes. Cupcakes aside, you're telling me it's ok not to make them rainbow cookies because of who they love? We must have different Gods because my God doesn't reward people for discrimination. Hey, I have a good idea. Let's put all the gays in an island. Let's segregate the coloreds and revoke the voting rights of women folk. Has anyone out there heard of a little document called the Constitution of the United Stated of America? I don't care who anyone loves. I'll take love over hate any day.

Ruth

Well since they don't make cupcakes, why would the city force them to do it?

Boycott them, no. Absolutely not. And you know what else, if they are a Christian run business I don't think it matters how much persecution they get (In the world you will have trouble...) because God can bless them for the right decision anyways.

But, I also want to point out that if you make you busines in the world then you should expect the world to act worldly. It's just how it goes. And it really sucks.

Yes, I have noticed that every time someone says no to gays then suddenly they are unaccepting bigots. Blah blah blah, we'll be persecuted for our beliefs, it says so in the Bible. Where you stand with God is what counts, not what others have to say about you.

Robin

I'm a Christian and I'm so tired of all the HATE...it's very waring and so contradictory. God tells us not to judge others...that's his job....I hate it when Christians feel they need to speak for others like we are all like-minded.

Speak with kindness and treat your neighbor as you would yourself.

Look at what just happened at Rutgers...that poor boy...that was a PERSON and someone's son. A son of God also.

Raf

I was raised as catholic but thankfully I didn't took for granted what was teached to me,I could see too much hipocrisy and I arrived at the point that I hate the concept of "religion"(any of them) just because what they do is "spread words of love, but just for those who are like you",and if you (think or live)in a different way, you have no right (to eat? to love? to choose?to live?), so I obviously disagree with the reason of the refusal. I don't care about the sexual life of anybody, as long as that doesn't bother me.They shouldn't have given this reason, but of course I do think that the bakers had the freedom and the right to choose or not the order, just, they missed a bit of sensibility with the answer.(what if someone tells you they won't sell you something just becouse you are Christian!!)And about those "impressionable daughters", they had a good lessons on how to discriminate.

amber hurd

I understand what they did completely. We should not condemn yet not encourage that kind of lifestyle. It is getting to be a really hard subject these days. Some churches are even promoting that all lifestyles are welcome and you don't have to change it to live for God. Sure, everyone should be welcome at church but we shouldn't encourage the lifestyle as all right and acceptable to God because it is not.

Londa

Whew...took me for.ev.er to scroll to the bottom! Lots going through my head, but I think God's Word is the balm I need in this blood-pressure raising incidence, "In this world, you will have trouble, but take heart! I have overcome the world!". God can use situations like these to make us long for perfect and glorious eternity for those covered by Jesus Christ!!!

heyjenrenee

hmmm. i am a Christian and i belong to a church who embraces the gay community and performs gay marriages. we believe in including everyone and providing a place of worship for everyone, including people who are gay. a rainbow is a rainbow, and it's a positive symbol for Christians and gays alike. can't Christians just accept and love everyone? (instead of saying 'i'm not making rainbow cupcakes for you GAY people and your coming out day.') i thought loving and accepting is what we were supposed to do as Christians.

scatterbrain

I agree with you, and I fee sad for that other bakery. I just hope there are enough good souls in their locality who see them for what they are - a family that wants to stick to their values.

I for one, have had a personal experience as a teenager, where god made a rainbow in the sky for me, on a hot summers day as a sign that he had a wonderful man to share my life with one day. it wasn't the boy I wanted as a teenager, but he gave me a man who was so so so much better than i could have asked or imagined!!!

*incidentally today is the 4th anniversary of the day we submitted our plans of marriage to God, together!

Heather Nerren

Oh, I am so glad you are talking about this! I read about it today and I actually thought of your rainbow treats. [Not because I assumed they represented gay pride.] I want to order from this bakery just to support them. I can only imagine the hate they are recieving from all angles.

The issues surrounding homosexuality are brimming with heated emotions and opinions. Simply refusing to design a special order for a group should not be considered "hateful", or "discriminatory". The bakery did not refuse to serve them because they were gay...or even refuse to sell premade items. They declined to create a specific request. A business should have the freedom to make a decision like that.

I've found that homosexuals are some of the most intolerant people I have ever spoken with. Amazing how harsh, cruel and unkind those who demand acceptance become when their view is gently opposed. People are just people...we all just want to be loved. Real love and truth are intertwined.

Simply talking with someone about a moral viewpoint is not equivalent to "judging" them, nor does the opinion or conversation in itself expose automatic "hate". These conclusions are irrational. [If you assume so, are you actually "judging" me for "judging" you and can you possibly explain to me the logic behind that circular?]

I think these things should be talked about while we are still "free" to talk about them...it may not be long before posts like this become "criminal". It's a bold topic you are tackling here...who knew cupcakes could become so controversial?

Amy K

I had not heard this until reading your post. When I read/hear things like this, I have to meditate, pray, and discern my response, especially when posting it out here on the www.
You know that I share your Christian beliefs, and most certainly rainbows mean the same thing to me...God's promises! And, in all the trials of life, God's promises are one of the things I hold near and dear to my heart, and everytime I see a rainbow, it literally brings tears to my eyes.
On the somewhat commercial side of things, I believe that any business has the right to make business/personal choices however they see fit, that is best for them. If this happens to include avoiding doing something that completely contradicts their moral and/or spiritual values, then that's their perogative, and it's unfortunate that the media happens to sensationalize these choices.
Perhaps some will deem this bakery prejudiced; however, I applaud their authenticity. They certainly could have disregarded their own beliefs for the almighty dollar, but they didn't, and should be commended for standing up to society/judgement.
I pray that God continues to bless them and give them strength, so they are able to manage their business in a way that will continue to bring Him Glory!
Sorry for such a long rambling response....

Blessings and Hugs to my sister-in-Christ...

Kate

I must live underneath a rock or something because I didn't know that the rainbow meant gay pride.

I respect the store owners for holding on to their morals and values in a world where people sacrifice them so easily for the sake of policital correctness or simply to be liked.

Just because something is becoming more popular doesn't mean it has to be accepted by all. I can love someone despite their choices but I sure as heck don't have to agree with them.

I wonder if they refused to fill an order for a prison if they'd be boycotted like this. Or a political convention? Or a school function?

I applaud them for clinging to their morals.

BC

I will not refuse service to anyone based on my own personal beliefs. As long as the customer is friendly, respectful, and pays, business is business. I could find something wrong with a lot of customers that walk in my door, but regardless of what I think personally, I do not let that interfere with my business. I know it is a fine line to walk, but I think it should have just ended with "We don't sell cupcakes". From what I understand, it's not like they wanted them to make the cupcakes and then come out and support and participate with them...they were just wanting cupcakes. Is this business going to refuse business if you are divorced, have children out of marriage, use birth control, or anything else that goes against christian beliefs as well??? However, in defense of the business, I don't think people should be slandering them as to making horrible cookies, because if that were true, they woulnd't have been asked to make the cupcakes in the first place.

Wendy

Very interesting. I would not avoid their business based on their beliefs, but I do think by giving a reason as to why they would not make the cupcakes does kinda "put them out there"...though I am embarrased they are treated so unfairly. They should have just said, "sorry, we don't do cupcakes." Would they not serve someone that has a criminal record? WOuld they not serve someone who is not a Christian? Where do you draw the line?

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1383896427

(I removed Common Sense's comment because of its cruelty and blatant disrespect... if you want to read it to know exactly what Crystal is responding to, just leave a comment with your email address)

Why Common Sense? Is it because we share an opinion that is different from yours? Nobody has said anything mean or hateful. I like hockey...I think it's a fine sport. Maybe you think hockey is dumb...boring...a waste of time. Should I be offended because you don't like hockey? Or because you think it's a waste of time?

No...it's your opinion. What I've stated is my opinion on the subject matter. Apparently, to you, having a different opinion than your own makes me "hypocritical" and "ignorant."

From dictionary.com:

hypocritical: –noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

There's no pretending here...I actually have these beliefs. I actually believe the Bible to be the Word of God (I actually even did my research on it while in college, so no, I'm not a "blind follower"). I actually try to live a life of morality as outlined by Biblical standards...a life that is pleasing to the Lord. And I'm not ashamed of it.

My actions do not belie my beliefs...disagreeing with one's lifestyle does not, in any way shape or form belie what I believe about God, the Bible, truth, or love. You can disagree and still be respectful.

Again, from dictionary.com:

ignorant: –adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

I'm not really sure how any of the above could even remotely be applied to anything that I've said or that has been said by anybody else who has disagreed with the gay community on this forum

Disagreeing with a lifestyle does not, in any way shape or form, indicate a lack of knowledge. I know what my Bible says. I know that the writing of it was inspired by God (read anything by Josh McDowell for more internal and external evidence that indicates the veracity of the Bible as a valid piece of written work...btw, Josh McDowell was an athiest when he set out to prove the Bible was false). I also know quite a bit about the gay community and homosexuality in general. So there's certainly no lack of knowledge here...just a different opinion.

So hey...if you wish to think that I, or Amanda, or any of these other folks that disagree with homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle are "bigots", go right ahead...

And btw...just for the record...again from dictionary.com:

Bigot: –noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Intolerant: –adjective
1. not tolerating or respecting beliefs, opinions, usages, manners, etc., different from one's own, as in political or religious matters; bigoted.
2. unable or unwilling to tolerate or endure (usually fol. by of ): intolerant of very hot weather.

Hmmm, there's nothing in there about sharing a different opinion. But it sure does resemble the post that you just made...which certainly did seem disrespecting to a view that is different than your own.

megan @ whatmegansmaking

I'm late commenting, but I just had to say that I agree with you. It's sad that they've essentially lost the freedom of choice in their own business. They shouldn't be boycotted for refusing to support something they disagree with on a moral level. They didn't refuse to serve gays, they just refused to support an event. but I guess we shouldn't be surprised - the Bible says to expect persecution and difficulties...

Denver

@Crystal Whittaker Gracioso:
>> Man shall not lie with man as with woman...it is an abomination.

Before quoting verses, I strongly encourage you to read the whole chapter. You just quoted the Jewish Holiness codes from Leviticus – specifically quoting Leviticus 20:13. The Jewish Holiness codes set forth a WHOLE lot of other requirements or else facing punishment – but for some reason, those are ignored today and JUST Leviticus 20:13 is used as a rationale for the subjugation against the LGBT community. For instance…if the bible is so clear cut with the above passage, then you also must follow this (these happen to NIV translations):
**
“If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.” (Leviticus 20:9) [We will seriously have no children left if this biblical verse is held true]
**
“If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.” (Leviticus 20:18)
**
“If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.” (Leviticuz 20:21) [SIDEBAR: Henry VIII used this verse as validation for his divorce from his first wife]
**
“If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.”

As a final sidenote, ironically from the same book you quoted from, just one passage before: “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD “ (Leviticus 19:18)

So let me ask you Crystal, is that verse REALLY as straight forward and clear as you initially proposed it to be?

In regards to the cupcake shop, in most situations an establishment has the right to refuse service to anyone they deem fit. Yes, the bakery is a private business - HOWEVER, this bakery signed a contract with the city of Indianapolis in order to operate in the specific location they were operating in. From a simple google search:

Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard's spokesman says the bakery's actions are "unacceptable. They are in the City Market, it's an equal accommodations establishment."

What does that mean? It means they can not use discrimination as a means of refusing service to clientele. The owner speaking out against the LGBT community showed his motivations were based in discrimination.

I am more than open to discussing this further. You can reach me at dnvrsmth@gmail.com. Thanks!

Denver

Also, Crystal, Josh McDowell book is one of the most preposterous writings out there. and before you ask, yes I did read it. The book is written much like the bible is written. "If this doesn't make you believe, then you must be stupid." (this of course is not verbatim)

I strongly disagree with the assertion that he was an atheist when he began his "study" into the "veracity" of the bible. I believe more than likely he was a christian who had questions, and he began searching the bible not to prove it false, but to prove it true. It's just a much better selling point on the 700 club when you sell the book as being written by an atheist turned believer.

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1383896427

Actually Denver, there's quite a bit more to Leviticus, Deuteronomy and the OT covenant than just the verses you mentioned. To understand why those things in Lev. are not currently practiced today, you would also have to have an understanding of the similarities and differences of the covenants of the OT and NT. It's entirely too in-depth to discuss here, and I'm hardly schooled enough in this discussion to adequately explain it. But there IS an explanation. If you truly want to know...seek out a Bible-based pastor in your area and ask questions. There's quite a bit more to it and quite a bit more to understand. I can pass on my pastor's email if you would be interested...he did a study on it not that long ago (of which we missed most...comes with the territory of having small kids).

Moreover...the verse mentioned from Lev is not the only time homosexuality is mentioned in the Bible. It is also discussed in reference to Sodom and Gomorrha (in which an entire city was destroyed due to sexual immorality) AND, for those who are NT purists, it is mentioned in Romans 1:26-27.

As far as Josh McDowell goes...he has many writings...Evidence that Demands a Verdict, A Ready Defense, etc. I think the information he presents is common sense and indisputable. I believe he actually said he was an agnostic at the time he set out to disprove the Bible...not an athiest. Whether he was or he wasn't, the information he collected is pretty convincing.

Last, but certainly not least...I appreciate the respectful discourse. We CAN have respectful discourse and still disagree.

Gianna

Whoa!
There is a lot of hostility in these comments!
A LOT. You would be living under a rock if you didn't agree.
First of all, Amanda, I know you are cool like this (but deep down you might not be), but don't take any of it personally.
On with my opinion.
From the business perspective, it would have been good to say, "we don't do cupcakes." But life isn't all about business.
Life is about relationships and being able to live with yourself and believing the truth and loving others.
All the pro-gay comments are screaming out about love. (let me point out that they are SCREAMING and YELLING about love. That seems mighty loving to me!)
Yet I do see love from the bakery owners.
Lots of love.
They love their children. It seems to me that they want to live what they say they believe. They want to have integrity.
Right now they are saying they have standards (be it the Bible or another set of standards--they may NOT be Christ followers--did it say that and I missed it?) and are unwilling to compromise them due to their business needs.

That is loving.
That is far more loving than caving to make a buck and get a pat on the back.

Denver

@Gianna – While there may be a disagreement over content and opinion about a subject matter, that does not inherently mean there is hostility between two parties. I feel one of the major stumbling blocks in discussing religion issues is that one side always attempts to show the other as “stupid,” “hostile,” “sinful,” “corrupted,” or some other adjective to reduce the discussion into a pissing match, so to speak. Instead, having the ability to discuss certain topics, bounce ideas and thoughts off of each other, and respecting each person for their contribution to the discussion and to the world at large has a much better outcome in the grand scheme, and can truly lead to change in a world that is so focused on dividing, that we are no longer able to see the common thread that runs through us all.

@Crystal – you are correct in a very big aspect – this discussion is far too indepth to go into on a blog about a bakery refusing to make cupcakes for a gay student group. That said, I feel I need to clarify one part of your comment, and I hope it’s not taken disrespectfully, but more something to consider and reflect on. A lot of today’s “Christians” are told by someone else how they are supposed to interpret and understand a book written in a time and place that is completely foreign to them. Instead of learning about the social and historical context of passages in which the bible is written, and instead of understanding that even in current times two people can translate the SAME texts in very different ways, today’s average Christian spouts off what they’ve been told in the church they attend each Sunday. They subjugate groups of individuals who have beliefs and ideas different from their own, and reiterate time and time again the “facts” told to them in church by the individual standing at the pulpit claiming to be a man of god who knows what each verse means and how it is to be understood. Unfortunately, a man is just a man (and a woman just a woman), and makes incorrect determinations about many things throughout their lifetime. I feel like is all about learning, rediscovering, researching, and observing other perspectives. Unfortunately, a lot of common day understandings of the bible have been passed down falsely from one pastor to his congregation, over and over again.

Your claim about Sodom and Gomorrah is evidence of a pastor who himself/herself doesn’t understand the historical and social context of that passage. To clarify what my research has shown me, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality shown towards the guests of the city and an overall lack of morality in the city at large. In that time and place, when a guest came to the city, they were to be treated as you would a King/Queen. The townspeople instead wanted to “know” (rape) the the angels god sent to the city, and such violation of cultural norms was explained as abominable in God’s eyes and thus he destroyed the city and ALL of its immoralities. The townsmen did not want to have romantic same-sex relations with the visitors. In that time, the way a group showed domination over another group, was by raping them. If there is interest in understanding more how the bible has been cultivated by it’s translations through time to vilify homosexuals and homosexuality, I am providing a link to a note I wrote and posted on Facebook in response to a hate-filled commentary on the movie “For the Bible Tells me So”: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=416545921430

Denver

And sorry for posting so much, but I just want to clarify something with regard to the bakery removed from all the biblical discussion. The city in Indianapolis is involved in this situation because the shop is on a piece of city property, and in order to do business on that property, the shop owner had to sign a contract that stated they would be an "equal accommodations establishment." This means they can not use discrimination as a means of refusing service to clientele. The owner speaking out against the LGBT community showed his motivations were based in discrimination.

Margie

It is not my place to judge, but I'm only human and I understand that He sees me as whole, even when I am fragmented. For me, this story represents the best and worst within the human nature. Feeling passionately, over those things that we see, if only through our own eyes of human understanding, may we come to understand what He has required of us. No one is right; no one is wrong. We must trust, tolerate and respect our differences, learning along the way that each of us has an important role, given to us by Him. We have a choice to grow and to discover. Perhaps we might see hope where there was none, forgiveness when there wasn't any, and thus a deeper faith because of it.

When I first visited your site a few days ago, I came upon the rainbow cake, and human that I am, I pondered: Is this what I think it is? This woman is a Christian and she is tolerant of another's choice in their life. (I'm guilty of scanning posts and not reading much unless something catches my eye.) And then today I came to see how you are doing, to get an update, and to pray that all is going well. I found this post and discovered that it was vitally important for me to respond. I'm guilty of wanting to be heard. This is where I found my answer:

I believe we should all listen, strive for our best for each and every moment that we are here for, "We know not the hour."

My first reaction, before I had completely read your post, was one of surprise! Were you really going to take this beyond the cake and pancakes, the bakery, were you going to manage a way to discuss the heinous act that occurred at Rutgers?

I had no idea. And that is when I realized that it matters not what I might think. If for only one moment I might find myself, tolerant, accepting, in spite of any said argument. May I find a way to see it through your eyes and the eyes of others.

So I stand before you trying to offer what it is that I sincerely feel and I find my heart full and aching with sadness.

Each and every one of us battles demonic foes, but every one of us deserves to be heard, tolerated, and respected as long as we do not intend harm.

God grant me wisdom to see, to understand, and to make a difference in the life or lives of anyone that suffers intolerance.

Thank you for offering this dialog.

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1383896427

Denver, again, thank-you for a non-hostile discussion. It's refreshing.

In anycase...I can assure you, I'm not the type to sit by and idly be fed doctrine. I'm probably a bigger skeptic than you might think. I wasn't raised in a Christian home and attended a rather liberal state university. Ironically, it was there that I did my research and came to the conclusion that the Bible was the Word of God and, like it or not, the things contained therein are truth.

I'm quite aware that in discussing Biblical doctrine, one must take into consideration the context of the time in which the events happened as well as the context of the time the events were written down. I personally choose to use a KJV so as to avoid the more modern translations that have quite a bit of license when it comes to interpretation of passages.

I disagree with your interpretation of the events of Sodom and Gomorrah...especially given the firm stance that is taken in the Levitical laws and in the mentioning of homosexual immorality in later scripture. Furthermore, God had determined to destroy the city even before the angels went there, meaning it would be hard for the city to be destroyed for being inhospitable towards their guests when their guests hadn't even arrived yet.

Perhaps they had been inhospitable towards previous guests? Well, they welcomed Lot with open arms now didn't they? The text doesn't go into their inhospitable tendencies at all, as a matter of fact. But it DOES describe their intentions (that being to "know" the visitors) as "wicked.'

In anycase...you strike me as a person that has done much research. Keep looking. Truth is there...and there really is only one truth.

For me...I'm off...there is much to be done around this house...

Becca -Our Crazy Boys

FORCE them into making the cupcakes? That's just silly.

It's their bakery. They can make (or not make) what they want. It sounds like the owner politely declined and gave a respectful reason.

Me? I try to answer questions honestly that my boys ask. When we have had their friends over who tell my 6 year old that marrying your best (boy) friend is gross because it means you're gay, I stop them. Because that's not my belief and that's not what I want to teach my children.

I am happy that Modern Family is on tv, so my older son can see what a "real" gay couple is like. And that it's ok with his parents if he chooses to marry a man or a woman, and have friends that are gay. Do we think or suspect that either of our kids are gay. Not at all. But it's ok with me.

Gianna

For Denver:
Your point is well taken.
I did read a lot of hostile and defensive comments (maybe not between you and Crystal). And while I agree with you 100% about needing to be respectful in disagreeing, trying to prove I am right or I have the better viewpoint never really truly changes anyone's hearts.

Bethany

I was thinking along the same lines as the first commenter- I do not like that rainbows mean something extra these days. I love the rainbow cake and pancakes, they are so fun!

SkyeShettles

I love rainbows. I love God. I love my faith and what God has given me and allows me. I feel like I have been blessed in many, many ways and am thankful everyday.

To me, rainbows stand for two things. One, the most important one, is what you've mentioned in this post. They're a symbol of hope. The second symbol for me, is hope for the homosexual community.

God blessed me with two amazing friends, both of which happen to be gay. I've stood with them through everything they've suffered through.. From coming out to their parents and getting kicked out of their homes, to being shunned in small town churches and persecuted for no reason.

When I finally let my walls come down I figured out that God gave me two amazing friends to help me open my eyes. That bigotry shouldn't be tolerated, and their sexuality, love life, faith, and religious actions are between them and God.

To me, the baker should have said nothing but "we don't sell cupcakes." If the discussion went on further, I think he should have helped them. Demonstrating tolerance, then talking to his children about love, God, how he felt about sexuality would have been the best solution. The way he made it seem was as if its okay to discriminate against others about their sex, race, sexuality, ect. Also, it was just bad business.

However much I think the bakery made the wrong decision, I do not agree with the actions taken. Its childish to rate their food as bad because they don't believe what you believe. Two people full of hate does not make anything right.

Laura

I agree with everything you've said, and I'm glad there are still people like us in the world. It's sad that a rainbow is being perverted into meaning something it doesn't. As for the bakery, if God is with us, who can be against us? He has a plan for that bakery.

Dala

Superb

Lillifred

I'm both an atheist and a person who've had gay feelings before. Because I'm not familiar with religion I didn't know that the rainbow is a christian symbol, so I'm happy I've learned something today!

I must say that I love all your cakes :) They look really beautiful and yummy.

And I love your rainbow cakes because I love the rainbow. And I love the rainbow for being the rainbow. When I see a rainbow while looking at the sky during a shower I feel overwhelmed by the beauty of all the colours. It's such moments that I realise how beautiful this planet really is, how lucky I am to live in this world, to be happy and to see a rainbow which is quite a rare event after all. And I know if anyone out there looks at the rainbow with the same admiration of nature that we have something in common. However little it is, you have something in common with everyone.

For me, the rainbow stands for diversity as well. It has so many different colours and people have so many different opinions. But even though all the colours are different they are all part of the rainbow and if only one colour was missing, the rainbow wouldn't be as beautiful. People are so different, but essentially they're all humans. They are all relatives of each other and it really doesn't matter if you believe that they're descendant from Adam and Eve or from bacteria, what matters is that every human being is precious. Every human being is part of the rainbow and there is something you can learn from everyone.

You can't force someone to do an order - I wouldn't like to eat cupcakes which support a cause if the producer doesn't support the cause, anyway - feels odd to me. But I do (quite strongly) disagree with the reasoning behind not accepting that order.

I do not think that being gay and gay pride events are harmful to children. Or families. Or faith. Or society. Or just anything, really.

Being gay is neither a choice nor a lifestyle. It's a part of your character you can't change, but it doesn't define your character. You can have gay feelings, you can have gay relationships, you can live in a gay marriage, even with your own or adopted children and be exactly as conservative or religious as the next straight person.

If you know that a person is gay you really just know that they love persons of the same gender, nothing else. If you refuse to employ such a person as a soldier you might loose a good soldier. If you refuse to let such a person adopt children you might loose a good parent. If you refuse to talk to them you loose the chance of meeting a friend.

Sadly, gay people are still discriminated against. Hate crimes, bullying, in many countries being gay is a criminal offence and in most other countries gay people can't marry. Gay people have been killed during the holocaust and on many other occasions just because their gay and this still happens today. Discrimination against gay people is harmful to society just as discrimination against women, disabled people, poor people, people of a different faith or people who're not white is. This is why I think that gay pride events are important. And this is why I can't understand why anyone would refuse to support such an event.

I personally like parts of the "gay lifestyle" very much. Other parts are strange to me. I like parts of what is considered "normal". Other parts I dislike. You can live a gay lifestyle without being gay and you can live a straight lifestyle without being straight. You can do anything you want as long as it doesn't harm others, but sometimes it's extremely hard to realise you're hurting others.

Essentially I think that preaching love and practicing discrimination is a bad thing to do. (Practicing discrimination is bad, no matter what you preach).

Falling in love, admiring the beauty of the rainbow and baking cakes are good things to do.

Amanda Rettke

Thank you for sharing your opinion Lillifred. :)

jen

Cool

Autumn

I absolutely would boycott them. For the same reason that so many of the other commenters have used to justify the bakeries actions, they have a right to decline an order they do not wish to fill, I also have the right to not spend my money at a place that encourages behavior I oppose. Stop for a second and think how you would feel if a gay baker refused to fill an order for a church event. Guaranteed you would not continue to use that bakery, you would tell all your friends, and many of you might have even posted some very strong messages about that baker on the internet. Or what about if it was another issue altogether? What if an all womens CEO conference was treated the same way? The bible states numerous times that women should be submissive to men, so what if, again on moral grounds, they refused that order? Would that also be acceptable? What if someone ordered a Kwanzaa cake instead of Christmas? They have a right to their own opinion and to raise their family as they see fit but it does not give them the right to discriminate, they could have just said no sorry we're all booked and left it at that, they did not have to say that they would not fill the order because of their children. I'm reasonably sure God would frown upon us, the oh so fallible human, purposely saying something to make someone else feel excluded and undeserving. Also, maybe for the future they should put up a sign that specifies that they only take orders that comply with their moral views, so someone can avoid the rejection, humiliation of public rejection and hurt feelings.

Sheena

I have only just stumbled across this page whilst looking for halloween themed cookies :) I think the whole thing is preposterous. How absurd that the baker felt compelled to share his/her views. In the original blog it says that the baker doesnt advertise the fact he makes cupcakes, why not leave it there? He had to go out of his way to make the customer feel less of a person by then going on to explain how the order didn't fit in with his moral standing. This makes him out to think he is above the gay customer. I'm sure being a christian he doesn't follow any other religion but if someone wanted a naming day cake or a bar mitzvah cake i'm sure he wouldn't turn it down.

The ultimate message here is that he has the right to turn anything down, it is his busness, but he should have left it there and not made his personal feelings felt. It is a business after all and now his children are more than ever affected by the 'gay cupcakes'

Cathy

I only just found this blog and this post.
I totally support the baker's right to say why he wouldn't make the cupcakes. In the next 10 years we will see a big push for acceptance of other "lifestyles". A pedophile is convinced that what he wants to do for little boys is showing love. If he came in wanting cupcakes decorated with male genitalia, should the baker have the right to refuse?
A person can't help who she is attracted to, but she CAN help what she does about it.
A brother and sister can "fall in love", does that make it a good thing? When pro-gay supporters start with the whole 'lets just love one another' line, they obviously have not thought through the possibilities.

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000198411764

This is something that goes beyond the bakery,the world has taken a symbol that belongs to God and perverted it. Which I believe goes back to the the main person behind all of the chaos in the world the Devil,and he will continue to do so. I refuse to let him win so everytime I see a gay person flaunting the rainbow I think prayerfully for the person and ask God to reveal to the and have mercy as they wear his colors.

Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but blessed is he who keeps the law. Proverbs 29:18

We really as God's people need to humble ourselves and pray like never before. Show the Love of God in a way that is biblically true. HAte is never God's way nor hurt,but we are called to stand up for the truth.

Grey

...
Seriously, he's been boycotted for not making rainbow cupcakes ?
I mean, it's just some rainbow cupcakes.
The fact a rainbow is beautiful doesn't justify boycotting someone for not making RAINBOW CUPCAKES.
I mean...
Seriously...
...

craftytammie

as others have said - it should have ended with "we don't make cupcakes." if you don't want your beliefs challenged, then try keeping them to yourself.

i love your baked creations, those cookies are awesome!

Shantel

So first of all, I love bright colors! I love to make cakes, cupcakes, pancakes, and anything else SUPER colorful. It makes people happy and brightens up their day! :)

Second of all, I support Gay Pride. I think that it was completely rude of the company to do this. I get that they don't make cupcakes, but they could have suggested cookies.. Yes, they have a right to have an opinion. But they went about it the wrong way. No wonder they are getting such bad publicity! If they refused this just because it was for a "gay" event, they are gonna get a lot of bad comments. If they had gone through with it, they could have got a lot of new customers and free publicity! And now.. because of their reason to deny it, they are losing business. Since I support Gay Pride, I wouldn't go to that store or suggest it to anybody I know.. They could have gone about it in a totally different way. Yes, they get an opinion but you need to think about what you're saying when you own a business. It could just put you out of business.. And as for all those people who are "christians", I'm not bashing your religion, but aren't you supposed to accept everybody for who they are and not hate people just because they are different than you??

And I'm glad to hear that people agree with my choice to not support a business like this. :)

Also, thanks for all your colorful and fun recipes! It's so fun to make all of these!! :)

krissy

I just wanted to say I 100% agree with Crystal Whittaker Gracioso

krissy

OH AND I TOTALLY L♥VE YOUR WEBSITE!!!! :-)

Angela

I'm really late to this party but I'll join it anyway.
I'm very disheartened to read all of these hateful and judgemental comments from Christian women.
As a Christian myself, I was taught a sin is a sin in God's eyes. That means someone else's sin is no worse than yours, no matter how much you want it to be.
What if that bakery knew you had a child out of wedlock and refused your order? Or had premarital sex? Lustful thoughts? Or how about those of you who have stolen something in your life? What if the bakery said they wouldn't serve a thief? Or what about those of you who have ever disrespected your parents, or lied to a friend?
Get over yourselves and read your bible more. Maybe then you'll find the path to being a Christian. Because so many of you claiming to be one don't sound like one at all. :(

Amanda Rettke

I am confused Angela... are you suggesting that Christians embrace sin?  Are you implying that since we cannot know all of the sins of mans heart that we look the other way?  What does the Bible tell you that God feels about sin.  Are we not to try and be like Him?

Laura

Amanda, Angela is trying to say that nobody is perfect. It seems that to her, Christianity means that you do not judge other people for their sins (that's God's job), and that our job is to love and support our neighbours, no matter what their faults. Obviously, not everyone subscribes to this view on sin.
I would not support this bakery because I don't support ANY buisness who's politics differ dramtically and publically from my own; and because I have many gay friends I would not be comfortable supporting a buisness who was rude to them. I also wouldn't support a buisness that made a point of saying they don't approve of black people, or Christians, or red heads. If, as a buisness, you put your beliefs into the public sphere, you have to expect to be judged (for better or worse) for this.

Laura

Oh, and I love your rainbow food, it's wonderful that you can bring something so fun and special into your children's lives that also has a deep personal meaning for your family.

Sue

I have always found it interesting that the gay community chose to use a symbol of God's promise to the faithful, to represent their "cause".
Though it may sound trite, I truly believe that all human beings should love the sinner, but hate the sin. We are all sinners, but that doesn't mean we (Christians) aren't always striving to follow Christ and live by His perfect example.
Christ himself makes no allowance for sin, and I respect the owners of the bakery for standing firm in their convictions by not promoting something that goes against their belief system.
They are not hate-mongers, and I think it's wrong that they should be "dragged through the mud" for quietly declining to make cupcakes for an event they disagree with.
As human beings I believe that we can choose to respectfully agree to disagree.

The comments to this entry are closed.